More than one person emailed or messaged me about Sean Fennessey’s entry that popped-up a few days after I posted this which, he left a comment on. I read the entry and got a little tinge of “fuck is thiisssss??” but blew it off because my first thought was “hang on to your ego, B”…but then, some other people mentioned it to me and I noticed a comment by a guy with an amazing ’Grandma’s Boy reference in his blogger name and the ever-supportive Kwis (speaking of which, hit me up for that song you mentioned, brandonsoderberg@gmail.com or IM: Fassbinder666) agreeing that the entry was kind of a rip. It’s not so much that the post was a rip which is fine, I liked that it was response, the sort of the “dialogue” I intended, and I certainly can’t take credit for the concept of “canon” but dude could’ve linked me… I know Mr. Fennessey is too busy interviewing Robin Thicke to cite sources, but when your entry is about the relative lack of quality in rap-writing/blogging (which are the same thing whether you like it or not) it might help to do some basic stuff like, cite sources. The entry also suffers from being pretty safe and at points, downright passive-aggressive. I know you professionals are more civilized and know where to put those daggone commas and whatnot, but it seems a little weak to talk in circles and cute one-liners (unless you’re writing for ‘Rolling Stone’ which none of you are, yet)…Then, today, I woke up to see this. All I’m asking for is a link. Not because I’m obsessed with comment or reader numbers but just because. I also thought paid rap-blogging was a little less, well, bullshit than other divisions between “mainstream” and “underground” (knowing those terms are hyper-relative in the microscopic world of rap-blogging). It seems that just like well, everything, those with power often take without credit from those who are scrappin’ for google ads…
Noz, like John Milton, another radical who thought he was a conservative, is “of the devil’s party without knowing it” (that’s William Blake if you’re looking for source-citing): calling out iconoclasm and days later, giving props to D4L. This, if done by certain other bloggers would be evidence of their unworthiness on-par with misinterpreting a Devin the Dude song. GASP! Personally, I love it because D4L's album is kind of good but it all seems like opinion masquerading as fact.
So, which devil’s party am I talking about? Well, primarily the one that doesn’t give a fuck about tradition; I just wish he’d admit that and not pretend to be a traditionalist. He’s also of the devil’s party of paid asshole bloggers. Posting on old-ass message boards doesn’t retain any street cred because, you’re a blogger, there’s no such thing as street cred! If one more blogger goes “gully” I might seriously go get my box-cutter. “Say it to my face” and threats of violence or fighting are so fucking retarded. You, me, we (?) sit at our laptops and write about rap music! It’s not cool. It's not hard. Most rappers aren't cool or hard either.
For all the ranting and raving by bloggers about rap’s lack of quality and its increasing irrelevance due to a reliance on cliché, you’d think the bloggers themselves wouldn’t act like 50 Cent. Tara Henley, when not reminiscing about the time she talked to some kid born with his heart on the outside of his body about Biggie, is mentioning how she’s getting paid or the book she’s writing or some other bullshit. There’s a disgusting hint of that in Fennessey’s entry too, when he writes “dayjob” and throws-up a link to Vibe.com (which no one reads by the way). Noz too, envelopes himself in pseudo-beef by posting cowardly one-liners instead of properly defending his points, which I KNOW he could do, he’s just lazy. Speaking of lazy…does Byron Crawford ever say anything? Only in the super-sensitive world of rap-blogging could someone with loosely-Cosby-like views be considered “controversial”…
When Fennessey talks of people, as if he’s some ruler over his subjects, saying “people, for the most part, want to agree with each other" I would say I don’t think people like to agree as much as they don’t like to feel alone. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this until, UNTIL it becomes a bunch of jerkoffs talking about ‘Illmatic’ and how it’s better than anything else because well…everybody knows that already. Is this what Noz was trying to say? Dunno because like Fennessey, he won’t come out and say much of anything. In relation to ‘Illmatic’, I’ll turn your attention to this ,a post by my friend Chris. Granted, the thoughts are little well, esoteric, but his basic point was about the conflict of the “overrated” and ‘Illmatic’ is kinda overrated. It sounds fucking great, every beat, every rhyme, but Nas isn’t saying much of anything. Does anybody have an emotional attachment to the actual music or lyrics? Maybe getting blunted to a song or fucking your girl to a song but Nas’s little secret is he’s never had dick to say…he’ll drop some third-rate knowledge and get brownie points for it but that’s about all he can do. It’s a little safe, like Noz and Fennessey’s entries.
Paradoxically, their discussions of complacency and a lack of taste are articulated in two very complacent, uninvolved entries. Calling out mediocrity through incredibly mediocre entries seems a little…retarded? Bullshit? I don’t know. Every “top” list ends up pretty boring, you fucking idiots. That’s not the point. The point is the making of the lists, everyone saying different stuff, some agreeing, some not, and some people being really outrageous and that’s great! By definition, the end-list will be kinda mediocre.
17 comments:
I just wanted to say great post. You've been on a role lately. The "Rap Canon" post was great even though I disagreed with the thesis of the post. I think you are the best new hip hop blogger out there. Keep up the good work.
I just wanted to take a second and critique your argument and comment on the post though. I personally feel the "rap canon" serves an important function and that it shouldn't be ignored even if it skews "east and obvious." Bol made a post today on XXL today in which he basically argues that if everyone is saying that mid 90s east coast rap is the best than chances are it really is the best.
The point of Straight Bangin's Top 25 album list was too come to a consensus on the internet of what the top 25 albums of all-time were. Bloggers and c-boys sent in their nominations and guess what, Illmatic won. To argue and rail against the list as if it were too say that it wasn't South enough, or it wasn't west enough, or it wasn't
new enough is completely irrelevant and misses the point of the exercise. The point was an attempt to come to a consensus of what the internet considers the pinnacle of the art form and in that sense it completely succeeded. The Internet has spoken and guess what people really like Wu-Tang, A Tribe Called Quest, Outkast, Jay-Z and Nas (and apparently hate Tupac which I do not understand in the least). And if you were paying attention to the last 30 years of rap criticism and fandom you shouldn't be surprised or offended.
My primary beef with non rap traditionalism is that it seeks to marginalize what is considered the "canon" in favor of either the new or the obscure. I find it a dangerous idea to disregard 30 years of history in order to prove the superiority of something that hasn't been proven by the test of time or consensus. Not that there is anything wrong with suggesting that a particular piece of obscure or new art belongs in the canon but let it go through the essential testing process that every album that is considered classic goes through. In fact, there is no word I feel that gets thrown around more egregiously than the word "classic."
Which is why I have been advocating the idea of the "pantheon" albums which would differentiate between albums that are merely great with those that are transcendent.
As a so-called "traditionalist", the other aspect of "non-traditionalist" rap criticism throw at us is that idea that we're willing to overlook what is new and exciting for what is "boring", "old" and "obvious." I find this to be a giant fallacy. For one, it assumes that simply because something that is new, its exciting. I am not a big fan of most modern hip hop because I find it to be mostly "boring", "obvious" and steeped in cliche. For one, I find most modern Southern rap that I hate has evolved from No Limit/Cash Money tradition as opposed to the Dungeon Family tradition or even the Geto Boys/UGK tradition. I hated No Limit and Cash Money ten years ago and its not very likely that I would like their descendants now. I find it convenient that modernist critics of rap conveniently ignore the fact that modern Southern rap music is just as derivative and living in vacuum as modern socially concious artists like Little Brother or Lupe Fiasco. They are building upon and pillaging from existing frames of music. It should be no shock that people who didn't enjoy their progenitors would hate their progeny. I thought Cash Money was vacuous, materialistic, couldn't rhyme, and had wack beats ten years ago so is it really that shocking that I would find somebody like Young Jeezy who is a direct descendant of their tradition to be boring as hell.
My favorite rap artists are Wu-Tang Clan, Nas, Notorious B.I.G., Masta Ace, and Rakim. It would make sense that I would gravitate towards new artists that come from their tradition of rap. I am personally excited about Saigon, Joell Ortiz, and Papoose who all orginate from that aesthetic. Each year there is one or two artists who come along and I like and buy their records. In '03, it was Little Brother when they dropped The Listeing. In '04, it was Kanye West when he dropped College Dropout. In '05, it was The Game when he dropped 300 Bars. In '06, the Clipse for Hell Hath No Fury and Lupe Fiasco for Kick, Push.
If hip hop wants me to reconsider my stance on its death. Its gotta move me and I'm sorry the vast, vast majority of does not and simply accepting the status quo because its new is nothing something I prepared to do.
Doc-
Thanks for the comments, I appreciate it. It's good to hear someone enjoying a post I wrote, while not necessarily agreeing with it. Indeed, the point was sort of to move "out" of my opinions. There are certainly parts of it that I don't personally agree with but may agree with objectively...
I've personally never said anything about it skewing the east or anything. My plan has been canon "reconsideration"; my entry wasn't called "revolutionizing the canon".
In a way, I would agree that New York rap is the best. Sometimes however, "the best" isn't all that matters, that was my point.
I basically agree with you on your points. The only difference is in a way, for better or worse, I have "lower" standards.
I wasn't really hating on 'Illmatic' I was just sort of performing. Performing the act of brave and cogent criticism that indeed should also have a place. I wish more people would talk about why the shit I love sucks. It's exciting. Joey from Straight Bangin' had a pretty good thing about why he still can't get into UGK, I loved it even though I totally disagree.
The point of my post is this is supposedly what Noz or Sean Fennessey want but they have a pretty convoluted and safe way of wanting it to happen. And of course, they can't give me a link when I totally deserve it...
Brandon,
Quick thought on Illmatic even though commentary on it has been beaten to death. Personally, I think saying that Illmatic is about nothing is short-sighted. To me that album is a self-portrait of a budding young artist at nineteen years old, living in the Queensbridge Projects, confused, broke, angry, unsure of himself and despite all of this hopeful that he might make it despite overwhelming odds that he might up dead or in jail. I think why it speaks too so much to the hip hop generation because the character Nas portrays on it could be anybody. He's not the swaggering drug kingpin that Jay-Z presents himself on Reasonable Doubt, he's not a psychotic sociopath troubled by paranoid delusions like Scarface or even Biggie on Ready to Die or Mr. Scarface is Back, he's not even the harried, roughneck but ultimately oddly moral street level drug dealers like Rae and Ghost portray on OB4CL. Nas is playing an everyman on Illmatic and I think for this reason, its so resonant with a lot of people. Even if you ignore the superior level rapping and production on the album, it's still paints a pretty vivid picture of whats it like to grow up poor in the Queensbridge Projects. The music makes it great, the story makes it trandescent. At least, thats why I feel its so great.
Doc-
Well-put. You're correct, just for me, FOR ME, there's something distant about Nas. Someone else somewhere said this (I can't remember who, maybe Todd Boyd's 'HNIC'?) that when Nas is rapping on 'Life's A Bitch', I never feel like he actually thinks that life is a bitch and that you never know when you're gonna go...etc. For an everyman, he's short on everyman-esque detail. But and this isn't me playing "agree to disagree" I see what you're saying and of course, most would agree with you.
I think Life's A Bitch is the most misinterepted song on Illmatic. The thing about Life's A Bitch is that despite its title, the song is ultimately about hope. There's a reason that AZ's verse is first and Nas' second. AZ's verse is cynical in nature and AZ suggests that the only way of bettering yourself is through a life of crime so when he states "Life's a bitch and then you die/thats why we get high cuz you never know when you wanna go." it takes on the air that life is pointless so fuck it you might as well get high.
Nas' verse is the counterpoint and where the song completely shifts tone. Nas is hopeful throughout the verse. He gives thanks that he made it to 20 years old and that he's become an adult because some of his friends haven't. He goes on to suggest a better way of life saying that wasting your life away on getting drunk is not the way to go because each day offers a chance for change. He still realizes that life could end at anytime but thats even more reason to enjoy life while you can. ("The buck that bought bottle could struck the lotto.") So when the chorus comes in a second time it changes the original meaning to suggest that "Life's a bitch and then you die.." it's saying each moment is precious and could end at anytime so enjoy it while you can.
This is then underscored by Olu Dara's trumpet solo at the end of the song which is both mournful and oddly hopeful for a better tommorow. Its quite a moving song and even more incredible that it was concieved by two twenty year old kids.
I think Life's A Bitch is the most misinterepted song on Illmatic. The thing about Life's A Bitch is that despite its title, the song is ultimately about hope. There's a reason that AZ's verse is first and Nas' second. AZ's verse is cynical in nature and AZ suggests that the only way of bettering yourself is through a life of crime so when he states "Life's a bitch and then you die/thats why we get high cuz you never know when you wanna go." it takes on the air that life is pointless so fuck it you might as well get high.
Nas' verse is the counterpoint and where the song completely shifts tone. Nas is hopeful throughout the verse. He gives thanks that he made it to 20 years old and that he's become an adult because some of his friends haven't. He goes on to suggest a better way of life saying that wasting your life away on getting drunk is not the way to go because each day offers a chance for change. He still realizes that life could end at anytime but thats even more reason to enjoy life while you can. ("The buck that bought bottle could struck the lotto.") So when the chorus comes in a second time it changes the original meaning to suggest that "Life's a bitch and then you die.." it's saying each moment is precious and could end at anytime so enjoy it while you can.
This is then underscored by Olu Dara's trumpet solo at the end of the song which is both mournful and oddly hopeful for a better tommorow. Its quite a moving song and even more incredible that it was concieved by two twenty year old kids.
Doc-
Yeah...foot in my mouth...perfect reading of 'Life's a Bitch'. Not much I can say in response to that.
Not that's I'm trying to respond but for some reason, there's just something about Nas that has always put me off, I feel like he never gets personal enough or something. That's his perogative but it makes it hard to connect to his music for me.
"This, if done by certain other bloggers would be evidence of their unworthiness on-par with misinterpreting a Devin the Dude song. GASP!"
Brandon, I don't blog, but damn, can I get a mention? You've done this on Breihan's blog too. Irony?
A couple more points:
1.) I am absolutely with Doc about Illmatic. I love your "Life's a Bitch" analysis (OK's "Invetro" follows the same structure); however, I have a different interpretation of my favorite line on the album, "the buck that bouught a bottle could have struck the lott." It's a heavy line, but I don't read it as hopeful. Nas the narrator is treating it as such, but I think that Nas the rapper is making a comment on the bleakness of QB life: he posits winning the lotto as the hopeful alternative to copping liquor...the LOTTO, one of the biggest pipe dreams for poor people in America. Nas could have offered that the dollar be saved or spent more wisely, but he used the lotto for a reason, and the song is more effictive for his having done so.
2.) All canon discussions are pretty much the same, but this one really reminds me of the canon debates in academia. My position is consistent: respect the masters, but include new shit if it's good and relevant.
Eau-
Yeah...I was being ironic with the mention of you, I figured I could do it with you since we have something of a rapport through blogs and stuff (even if we don't agree).
However,the problem with your half-dismissal of the canon-talk through over-simplifying is the obvious: what determines "good" or "relevance"?
Eau,
I think your right about the "buck that bought a bottle could struck the lotto" line but I also think he's being metaphorical in the sense that its saying that its better to have pipe dreams than to recede into self destruction.
Brandon,
If Nas doesn't connect with you like any rappers that fine. Its a matter of taste. I find Nas endlessly fascinating flaws and all. I do think that Nas gets alot more personal than you are giving him credit for. He discusses his personal life alot more than you think. Although, I don't think you are mistaken in suggesting that Nas on occasion does veer into kickin' false knowledge territory. However, I think he's at his strongest when he goes conceptual like on a song like I Gave You Power. Its pretty brilliant in the song to speak from the point of view of a gun who is tired of being forced against his will into murder, thinks he has escaped his fate after jamming on his owner and getting him killed, only to be picked up by his owner's murderer and dragged right back in an endless cycle of violence.
Doc,
I hear you; the problem is that the particular pipe dream he's highlighting, wasting money in hopes of hitting the lotto, is another form of self-destruction. The subtle way he sneaks the bleak worldview into his hopeful verse is what makes the song so great to me.
Brandon,
Good taste and context determines what's good and relevant. I don't think that good taste is completely subjective, though (there are objective reasons why ATLiens is better than whatever mediocre shit Pitchfork is slobbing these days). I think that a solid knowledge of rap conventions is extremely important, but not all-important.
This is great chatter.
I posted something similar to this on Cocaine Blunts but it seems pertinent here, as well: One of the problems inherent to discussion of a canon is that while there are loose parameters one might use when classifying the quality of music (I think it would be fair and widely agreed that Illmatic trumps The Massacre in things such as the quality of the rhyming and the consistency of the production), we ultimately cannot fully quantify taste. And that is a good thing, because it makes these discussions fun.
Given the subjectivity of personal taste, though, I find that oft-invoked "classics" such as Illmatic or Ready to Die are credibly included precisely because of the frequency with which they're cited. It strikes me as a testament to their value that so many people feel strongly about them. As has been suggested, perhaps the taste-making apparatus is monolithic and biases too many opinions to that point that there is little original thought--rap fans, especially, seem all too scared of losing credibility--but I find this to be a somewhat self-serving argument advanced by those whose identities are invested in being different. I don't think there is anything illegitimate or wrong with arguing that the accepted "canon" is perhaps due for some revisions, but to virulently dismiss so much consensus--as some have--seems excessive and masturbatory.
Questioning the status quo is great, and the writing I read here keeps me coming back because the ideas are fresh and there is intellectual honesty behind them. But to effectively piss on others while positioning equally subjective claims as assertions of a better truth doesn't make sense or seem right.
Debates about regionalism and canonical hip-hop are a perfect example of what I'm trying to get at. And Doc made this point. It may be so that the common logic concerning great albums unfairly excludes some works from the South and elsewhere. It may also be so Outkast has been co-opted by the mainstream and is all too often trotted out as a token southern musical emissary. But to then make a leap and say that the South and some more underground music is truly among the best shit ever, and that everyone else is wrong or lazy or part of the herd--that is condescending and self-reverential. Consensus about musical taste is not "wrong." Maybe the sample set is flawed, but the aggregation of opinion is what it is.
Whoa B. Rein it in a bit. As usual, I dig the enthusiasm and the effort, but I didn't notice anything that objectionable about Sean's or Noz's posts, even in relation to yours.
Sean just said lists like that top 25 are too often just "that's wassup" circle jerks, which is pretty true. And Noz just basically said "give me somethin' I can use", which I agree with too. I have all those albums on the 25. I've heard em. A lot of times. As entry points, those lists are great. If a 16 year old aspiring rap herb asked me what he should listen to for old stuff, I'd say check these out if haven't already. But I wouldn't tell him to dump his Crime Mob CD, which is sometimes implied with these things.
Telling these bloggers to show some hustle isn't necessarily a bad look coming from you, but I think some passivity isn't a bad thing either. Writing off the wall shit all the time just to set people off is for Bol and isn't interesting for very long. Both those dudes just came with some measured, concise heeds of caution about the whole "canonizing once and for all" impulse. What you call lazy or conservative, I'd tend to call digestable in the best sense of the word. You don't have to spend a hour trying to parse out their arguments. They give it to you straight and fairly simple. That's something to be valued in many instances. Ambition is great, and a lot of bloggers who've "made it" (in the music writer sense of the word) do seem a little complacent at times, but there's gotta be a balance. I don't wanna sound condescending cause what the fuck have I ever done? I'm just giving you my reaction to this post. You write some good shit. Just don't go all shock-jock on us.
one liners are hip hop.
This is a funny thing everyone, where the "professional" blogger posts short cryptic messages just to say "I'm reading..."
Brandon: you say:
"Calling out mediocrity through incredibly mediocre entries seems a little…retarded? Bullshit? I don’t know. Every “top” list ends up pretty boring, you fucking idiots. That’s not the point. The point is the making of the lists, everyone saying different stuff, some agreeing, some not, and some people being really outrageous and that’s great! By definition, the end-list will be kinda mediocre."
This doesn't make any sense to me. In rap these lists go nowhere because the idea that there is a rap canon doesn't go beyond an idea. Obviously there isn't a definitive list, nor should there be. I'm not interested in reading another list that says Rakim is the best emcee but Illmatic is the best album etc etc etc...Because I already have heard this opinion. I think Sean was kind of saying that in his post: Patting yourself on the back because you love Illmatic does not make good hip-hop journalism, it makes tired sub-Ego Trip self aggrandizing, and rap journalism doesn't need more of that.
You are absolutely getting at something valid in analyzing this, specifically the idea of music/hip-hop list-making as being a fun thing, and people weighing in and forming their opinions because they, you know, love music. But you lost me again when you start insulting writers because their job is to do this stuff? What is the point of that? Are you pissed that people don't care about music as much as it seemed they used to or are you pissed because you aren't getting linked enough? You come off as more than a little bitter.
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