Dukes over at The Full Clip posted a pretty muddled and ultimately sorta safe but still worth discussing entry on XXL's latest batch of "Freshman" and how it's evidence of the negative influence of blogging on hip-hop. His biggest conflict is one that nearly anybody could agree with, at least at first: Very few of these guys have proven themselves and only a couple of them seem all that spectacular.Dukes' point is one about a frustration with the immediacy of the internet and shortening attention spans and lots of other stuff. It's best defined by a concern he expresses when he implicitly compares these guys to rappers of the past. All the rappers on XXL's latest cover are not spectacular--except, his totally subjective support of Kid Cudi, Blu, and Wale--and that their (relative) fame "seems more hustle than art...", as if the 1991-equivalent of internet hustle wasn't being employed by every rapper that blew up in the next couple years after that. It's verging on nostalgia without coming out and saying it or maybe, not really knowing it?
The quickest rebuttal to Dukes' blog blame is this: Look at last year's cover. It's certainly less "blog rap"-oriented and even though the number of artists on each list that I like is about the same, this year's is a way more promising list. Simply put: You'll have to defend this year's list to less rap fans. It's harder to dislike say, Charles Hamilton than Lil Boosie (even though Boosie's way better in every way really). Interestingly, last year's group is actually more representative of varying tastes in rap and a wider spectrum, but that's another point, we're apparently talking about rap music as a whole. So, if this year's list is what the blogs created and last year's list was something else, then blogs are not going to destroy hip-hop next year.
How or who or what led to last year's choices is unknown and while this year's list is a bit more on the side of the kind of dudes bloggers have been bigging-up than last year's, that seems more of a sign of how rappers use media outlets to get their names out there than anything else. These are not a bunch of rappers who got a song posted on some sorta-popular blog like this one or anything, these were guys with enough press or pull or clout or whatever to get their music to a bunch of powerful "bloggers" and rap websites and from there, it trickled down and then back up.
These guys all maintained a hype and were able to capitalize on the rap blog world's obsessive quest for the newest leak, freestyle, or whatever, but every one of them were "established" in the sense of having a solid team of people blowing them up before they actually blew-up.
It still seems baffling how a semi-talented turd with a white people-baiting bit as deep-rooted as Sarah Palin's "Joe Sixpack" routine like Asher Roth went from being nobody to being hyped by XXL, sucked-off by NahRight, and on this cover, but it didn't have a whole lot to do with bloggers, it had to do with the same fucking connections and superficial "hustle" that's broken your favorite and least favorite rappers. If there's something to blame the bloggers for, it's not really questioning or analyzing any of these up and comers and just sort of accepting them and instead, dropping 75 words on how this song samples 'Adventures of Dizzy' for NES or how this guy performed at that one FADER after-party and rapped on old-ass Franco Battiato tracks or how this guy's really taking it back to 1994 or whatever else.
Dukes' piece is giving the blogs way too much credit. Unless of course by "blogs" you just mean the frequently updated section of every print magazine's website or NahRight which really isn't a simple blog anymore (and has always had tight industry connections). And if that is what Dukes means by "blogs", then his frustration's misdirected because these "blogs" and semi-corporate websites have picked up where lagging magazines sales dropped off. It has very little do with this blog or most of the blogs I read...
66 comments:
sucked off?
always had tight industry connections?
really?
In your own way, yeah dude. When you post like "Asher Roth stands in the same room as Grand Puba" or whatever, videos, it seems less giving people cool shit and adding to the machine.
It's nice to know you read or just started reading this blog though. Thanks!
I mean, Brandon, some people enjoy listening to Asher Roth and want to see "Asher Roth stands next to Tupac" Youtube clips and what not.
I love how, because I don't think the kid is garbage like some other people do, that makes me a bad guy.
because you know, nevermind the fact that respected and established rappers are co-signing this kid in front of a camera, let's call out eskay for posting the Youtube.
like I said on Dukes site, I feel like this whole backlash amounts to people who don't like certain artists on these XXL covers acting like nobody else should like them.
I mean, I personally think Boosie is one of the most horrible 'artists' on the planet, and more detrimental to the culture than Asher Roth could ever be, but you didn't hear me crying about him being on last year's cover.
furthermore, "adding to the machine" and "sucking off" are two entirely different accusations to make. I don't appreciate being on the receiving end of either, but the latter rings of unnecessary disrespect.
eskay-
That's quite alright to post them, but like I said, I think you're very much adding to the hype of this guy, a guy who in particular, came out of nowhere, is gimmicky, and seems to only have a whole lot of hype going for him.
It's good that you're willing to defined and call assholes like me out when I say some bullshit, but at the same time, the "I post what people like" argument is fine, but then, don't present yourself as discerning or anything more than a guy who posts a lot of shit. When you mention things like "disrespect" you're sort of posing as something more or like you care what people have to say about you.
Or put this way. you're being discussed in the same way I discuss a lot of stuff, no better or worse...and you're sort of implying you deserve better, which is weird.
"Or put this way. you're being discussed in the same way I discuss a lot of stuff, no better or worse...and you're sort of implying you deserve better, which is weird."
AKA: I can call out anyone's credibility because I'm a strident contrarian who talks out of his ass and doesn't have to qualify my speculative bullshit even when I'm going at another dude's neck.
Abe-
Well kinda..
Don't you have so more stuff to write that can get rejected by OhWord?!
And Eskay, my post's not really about whether or not I like or dislike the artists involved--I don't own a single CD or single or anything by any of this year or last year's artists--it's about Dukes' misrepresentation of bloggers "impact" and a misunderstanding of the kinds of blogs that have real power...yours! Which is fine, but again, don't get bummed when people think you support the stuff you uh, post on your site?!
For the record, I believe Roth and Boosie both suck ass. Wale is the only decent one in the group, Blu is alright. I tend to think this years 10 were much influenced by certain blogs, to the delight of few and dismay of others, yours truly. Anyway where were the East Coast Avengers at on the list? haha
"The enemy of art is the absence of limitations." -Orson Welles after reading the final installment of the Post Lyricism series
I don't make "art", Abe. Who's Orson Welles? Is he some new blog rapper?
No offense brandon, but your freestyle comment-battle with Abe is not a good look (on the other hand, kudos on the Ohword zinger).
This one was hard to follow bc at the same time you're dissing Asher Roth, I think you're somehow legitimating his and the other Freshmen's place on that XXL cover, by saying something like the same machine that broke off someone like Nas back in the day is breaking off Roth now?
I think you're right in differentiating between the type of blogs/outlets that Dukes is likely talking about and more journalistic-ish blogs that I assume are the ones that you frequent. It's a matter of how you define blogs and which type dominates more and I think the former has more influence over the larger rap blog audience than the latter.
ehh, it's both. Wale got covered by a bunch of blogs like this (not this one, but you know, critical blogs and whatnot) And Blu's hype spread more by word of mouth and critical blogs than nahright or anyone. Then again since Dukes singles out those guys as being exempt from his criticism, I'll let that slide.
How many of these guys have put out a mixtape that was better than Bigger Than The Mayor or Da Beginning? And is hating Asher Roth the last way to unite rap fans?
"Unless of course by "blogs" you just mean the frequently updated section of every print magazine's website or NahRight which really isn't a simple blog anymore (and has always had tight industry connections). And if that is what Dukes means by "blogs", then his frustration's misdirected because these "blogs" and semi-corporate websites have picked up where lagging magazines sales dropped off"
I pretty sure that's exactly what he means so I wouldnt take offense which is what it seems you're doing
What does this mean?:
"It's verging on nostalgia without coming out and saying it or maybe, not really knowing it?"
Im pretty sure that it's implying that I am just an old man who wants to listen to Grand Puba and walks around muttering "Kids music these days." Im also pretty sure it means that I dont even know Im like that.
My post and ensuing comments especially should prove that I love modern hip-hop but think these guys are garbage. It has nothing to do with wanting old things back.
Ok Im off to work but I do want to give my two cents later. Thanks for keeping the conversation on this one alive.
Ok. A few things:
1) "Dukes over at The Full Clip posted a pretty muddled and ultimately sorta safe but still worth discussing entry on XXL's latest batch of "Freshman"..."
Im going to say that this analysis/criticism is a direct response to me directing a link to this site last week: "After reading Brandon Soderburg's rambling yet precise criticism on the current state of lyricism..."
Not a big deal but let's call a spade a spade.
Still maybe the post was not as in-depth as it could have been, that I agree. I wrote that after being a bit heated right before I fell asleep, and on top of it being a little too short to say what I meant fully I think that I mistitled it. While I think there are a lot of negative things going on hip-hop right now as far as attention spans go, I dont think the word "destroy" is as accurate as it could be. That title needs a longer explanation with a deeper argument that honestly I dont really do over at The Full Clip.
That was probably one of the longer posts Ive had in a minute, since I dont usually get into the dialogue that you do well over here. It was perhaps my attempt to begin a foray into that kind of discussion, which I would like to have but honestly havent moved into.
2) Of course my claim of "blogs" has nothing to do with this site or OhWord or any other hip-hop site even somewhat dedicated to a more journalistic approach to the game. Im talking about sites who promote the hell out of these guys. Sites that everyone looks to not for criticism but as a tastemaker distributing the current hip-hop scene in real time.
I wonder, though, how it is that Im misdirected in critisizing these sites, whether they are technically blogs or not? Dont you agree throughout this post that these sites are responsible for these guys making the cover of XXL?
It's a little strange that we're having a conversation about the impact of blogging on hip-hop based on who is on the cover of a print magazine. The fact that I have only seen this cover in electronic format (on several sites) and not actually held it in my hands, underscores brandon's point (at least what i got out of the post, i'm not trying to put words in mouths) that it is almost inconsequential to be separating out print media from the internet. I work in public broadcasting, where we still refer to "new media," but everyone else is telling us that there is no such thing anymore. Media is Media. The format doesn't matter anymore.
I - like I presume Brandon - tend to separate some of the more discerning blogs from websites of print magazines and sites like nahright. I think the 'impact' on hip-hop that we're talking about is the immediacy/glut of information that defines the internet age. It's not like a cadre of "bloggers" has decided that these guys are good and have deviously elevated them to such a stature that a "real" publication like XXL would put them on the cover.
I don't think we're looking at either a top-down (if you want to refer to XXL, nahright, etc, "the top") or a bottom-up ("bloggers") phenomenon. Like always, there is a feedback loop that amplifies certain performers much in the same way that it did in 1998, but through different avenues.
I, for one, am surprised when I see artists that I like and respect on the cover of major publications, such as Joell Ortiz from last year or Blu and Wale, on this year's. How many times has Memphis Bleek been on the cover of a magazine?
maybe I should have been more clear:
I think Asher Roth can rap.
I'm not posting his shit on my site because I think other people will think Asher Roth can rap.
Quite the contrary. I knew damn well that some people would like him, but many would also dislike him.
so, what I was taking offense to was your assertion that Asher was being "sucked off" on Nah Right.
now if you wanted say something like "I don't like Asher Roth and I don't understand why eskay is posting his shit" that would be one thing.
because then we could have an intelligent conversation about why I disagree.
but you had to take it there and use loaded language like "sucked off".
like come on man, is that really necessary?
which brings me back to: you don't personally like Asher Roth (and any number of other rappers on the cover of XXL this month) and so you don't feel like he (or they) should be getting love anywhere.
I know you said that your post wasn't about that, but in a way it really is.
as for the intended subject of your post and what you were trying to imply: of course Nah Right isn't the place to go for critical analysis.
like, no shit.
from it's inception it wasn't meant to be that type of site, it was always meant to be a resource for new shit, and I tell people all the time not to refer to me as blogger.
that being said, everything I post is either something I personally like, or something by an artist that I enjoy or respect. there are "bloggers" out there that post any and everything that crosses their inbox, but I am not one of them.
so you can go there and take from it whatever you find to be of value to you and keep it moving past the other shit, or you can get aggy and accuse me of sucking rappers off because you don't think they have talent.
So my stupid two cents:
Dukes's post is this tiny little blurb; I don't think it was quite fair to submit it to extended analysis. There are better examples of the nostalgia you're looking to attack. If it wasn't for the blog echo chamber would the rappers who are on top today still be on top? I don't know, but some bloggers are taste leaders, and I think it's reasonable to surmise that blogs have contributed a little to Wayne's popularity, detracted somewhat from 50's, been extremely valuable to the careers of guys like Wale and Charles Hamilton - of course, maybe that's a good thing. Rap blogs, on the whole, do tend to trend away from the guys with massive corporate push and more towards the rappers with some sort of quirkiness to them. Which is sort of a good thing, but at times I worry that weirdness is getting favored over everything else, like actual talent, songwriting, any kind of replay value, the ability to be anything but the same weird guy on freestyle after freestyle...
As for Eskay, Eskay posts all kinds of garbage. Nah Right's just what he says it is, a resource for new shit/Jay stan message board, nothing more. His posting Asher Roth videos is a sort of a cosign, but it's far from a full-fledged, Breihanic sucking off. That said, on the rare occasions that he does write about stuff elsewhere, he does appear to be a pretty insightful, discerning guy, and I think he is due some modicum of respect, just because of his place in the rap blog game.
Uh...I'm just curious as to why Eskay feels the need to defend himself so much he keeps on posting here. If you posted something up on Nah Right it's because you believed in it enough to think it deserved some light, therefore no need to get offended at anyone saying anything regarding your choice of content.
Had Brandon said something about "Vandalyzm/Tanya Morgan/Drake/Shawn Jackson, etc." getting sucked off by Poisonous Paragraphs" I'd laugh it off because since I actually believe in these artists I push for them all the more and could understand why readers would think that way.
As a blogger that doesn't even think people like you pay attention to "us" (blogs like mines, No Trivia, When They Reminisce, etc.) why you feel they overwhelming need to defend yourself is a head scratcher. I'm just saying.
One.
Tray wins for the phrase "Breihanic".
Sounds like an unreleased Slayer EP.
I feel the need to defend myself, Dart, because I felt like Brandon's claim that I was "sucking off" Asher Roth was inaccurate.
If he was to say I sucked off Jay-Z or Redman or Lord Finesse, well that I would laugh off, because he would probably be right.
And contrary to what you think, I pay attention to and respect (for the most part) most of you guys' blogs.
Just because I don't feel the need to write 1200 words about every record I post doesn't mean I'm a fucking moron or that I'm not paying attention.
I'm late to the party here and I don't feel I have too much to add, so...Let me say this much:
Big Rils is on point. Good shit, man.
Eskay: No one expects you to do in depth analysis- it's not your job. But I've read some of the short writeups you've done, and I've always thought they were well-thought out and you came off as articulate.
But you've always given credit to rap journalism, quality interviews, more in-depth stuff via the Nah Right Lite RSS. I was pretty flattered when you linked to shit I wrote.
Brandon: You're a talented writer and I respect your opinions, but Abe has got a point: sometimes it seems like you're trying too hard to start internet beef and I don't get why.
I think Blu and Wale are the most interesting of the 10 when you think of why people were excited.
Not just a single dope track or a viral video but really high quality, cohesive output. Blu got buzz from an album that people got excited through word of mouth, the old fashioned way - except the word spread faster, thanks to the internet.
I can tell you I recommended Below The Heavens to a friend and he got it and we raved about it together.
That's a beautiful thing, man.
Wale put together a really creative, smart and throughly relistenable mixtape, with memorable songs and creative subject matter.
If I removed my sub-rant about Asher, which is really more about the corporate/mainstream/whatever blog machine and how dude came out of nowhere, my point would remain. Believe me, I wouldn't be happier if my ten favorite rappers were on the cover, it's besides the point.
It's good to defend yourself, but Dart's thinking what I'm thinking...why's it matter? I think most people see/get where I'm coming from. Again, if I had replaced "sucking off" with something more accurate and less crude, you'd still be, for whatever reason, mad eskay.
Dukes, the half-insult was just a joke. Everybody needs to chill out. It wasn't in reference to your discussion of my blog b/c I didn't read what you wrote about my blog...the joke was of course, I do very similar posts on this blog all the time. Dukes, you're projecting a lot into my posts.
The main point is your anger with "blogs" shouldn't be any different than one's anger with magazines or whatever fuels corporate coverage of rap. That you singled out "blogs" seems strange. Nahright IS XXL at this point, just like say... Perez Hilton IS OK Magazine.
(here's the part where Eskay gets too offended that I compared him to Perez Hilton)
You presumably come here--and all of you, whether you think I'm a douche or don't--because of my asshole opinions. Relax or like, write a response or something.
It's also proving Dukes and Brandons point to some extent that this post causes all this controversy, defense, etc and a post on Rudy Ray Moore and rap yields way less comments
Eskay - While I agree that Brandon is way out of line with the sucked off talk (dude has historically gone to great lengths to lob unprovoked insults at any and every more 'successful' blogger. I'm actually surprised it's taken this long for you to land on the receiving end of his bullshit.) I do think it's a bit disingenuous for to suggest that you don't play the game, so to speak. And this isn't necessarily a bad thing, I've told you before that I have a lot of respect for your ability to turn a personal site into a professional venture. But call NR what it is - a general hip hop news feed. I mean you have that horrendous E-40/Shawty Lo/Lil Jon dance record up there right now. You telling me that's what you listen to at the end of the day? I'm not even going to acknowledge that bullshit and I've been consistently sucking off 40 since the inception of my blog.
I think your site suffers as it becomes less representative of your tastes, but I'm obviously not your target audience at this point.
As for the cover: The difference between Boosie and Asher is that, for better or worse, Boosie is a product of democracy. He made records, people liked them, he became a star, we were forced to write about him. Nobody cared about Asher before he had a deal. We write about him because people work all day long to keep his name on our lips and our screens, regardless of the quality (or existence!) of his output. Maybe I don't run in the right circles, but it seems like very few people in the real world, outside the internet buzz cycle, are even aware of any of these guys. I'm a huge fan of BOB but I just saw him perform to a room full of people who were completely unaware of him (and I'd say a Banner/Kweli double bill is just about as diverse a cross section of hip hop fans as you're going to get).
It's interesting that the very audience (ok*ypl&y$r types) that so often accused genuine underground successes, say jeezy or d4l, as being manufactured by shifty label executives and hoisted upon the populous are now so eager to buy into artists who had ZERO PROFILE before they signed. I mean where did an act like the Knux come from? I think rappers should actually record music prior to getting their team to pen an email blast. (I do commend XXL for putting Blu, who, afaik, is an underground rapper in the traditional sense, lacking a major deal or publicity firm, on the cover, even if it does reek of the same sort of arbitrary tokenism that got ace hood on there).
Noz deeeeed it! Well-put and fair.
I got nothing against Eskay either, other than the whole thing Noz and others have pointed out...you're a guy with a lot of clout who posts any and everything relevant to rap. That rules and somebody needs to do it. But there's simply not quality control going on over there.
You serve a purpose and one that appeals to waaay more people than this blog. People come here for way too long quasi essays on bullshit, people go to Nahright for the latest shit. Not putting me on your level, but admit the audience you appeal to and why.
But yeah, don't pretend you're more than that and when you do, it's hard not to insult you a little bit. Even a Perez Hilton of hip-hop comparison doesn't work because Perez is willing to alienate SOME people.
As for "sucked off", it's a joke guys. Chill out. And as I said, had I said "...and Nahright posting any and everything Asher Roth puts out there with little interest in quality and simply adding to the hype machine" you'd be just as salty.
this is amazing.
lol, sucked off. Who gets mad about that?
Just curious, Brandon, which few of the 10 do you like? BoB and Wale are the only interesting ones to me.
A lot of these rappers aren't even new/"freshmen" anyway. Currensy? Where's Jay Electronica on this then? Magazines are stupid.
man before i realized that the guy who wrote the full clip post was named "dukes" i thought that brandon was just trying to bring it back as a slang term. that would have been great...
Don't blame Eskay for Asher Roth's rise, blame Beanie Sigel.* Beans, stop sucking off this semi-talented white-people-baiter. Have you not heard the deeply racist things he's said about rappers who buy expensive necklaces? Oh, the insidious racism... oh, the deeply problematic nature of it all. Beans, you should know better. Stop feeding the machine.
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sLxQGCOJT8
I don't really see the need for a big commotion regarding xxl or any blog or magazine giving their own "top freshmen/leaders of the new school" list. Its great exposure, but it really does very little in terms of carrying their career far. Very often, these lists are close to being flavour-of-the-week trendy buzzcreators that blogs/magazines want to be part of - they're often trying to be part of the conversation or going for proactive itoldjaso moments in case they blow up. I mean just look at last year - gorilla zoe? saigon? PAPOOSE? I do however, agree with dukes, brandon and particularly noz, all of whom have to some degree pointed out tht last year's list had more names that were on their grind before they gained word of mouth and blog buzz. this year has a few deserving names who've worked really hard for this too. and asher roth (sorry for the cheap shot. I think Jordan's right in sugesting that hating on Asher Roth unites rap fans)
I think its pretty obvious that blogs serve as a new advertising medium these days, but these artists will need to carve their own legitimate discographies and hustles to hold on to this fleeting moment of exposure. no real need to get mad or afraid of these 'best new artist' award types. they might get the exposure, but at the end of the day, I think we're all discerning enough to objectively judge their musical output
I mean guys, I'm not gonna sit here and act like I don't play the page impressions game. Nah Right is what puts food on my table, so yeah, it's important that I keep the content fresh.
So yeah, some shit ends up being posted more for the conversational value it carries than anything else.
for example, the E-40 record. of course it's horrible, but I respect 40's legacy, and hey, people want to discuss horrible records too.
if it's good, or if it's trash, either way people are going to talk about it and that's really what I always wanted NR to be about.
the same goes for Asher Roth.
so yeah, I guess I could have been clearer on why I post certain things, and I can see how some of you might be puzzled that I post some stuff that is shit and then turn around and defend my taste.
all that said, you're outta your mind if you think you're gonna put the words "nah right" and "sucked off" in the same sentence and not get a response from me.
I can just imagine Eskay sitting there with his laptop, waiting for some crappy Asher Roth video to upload and nervously refreshing his google search for "nah right" and "sucked off," ready to spring into action at any moment to defend his reputation.
Jordan, it's all about Google Alerts these days.
Screenshot
"I respect 40's legacy"
That's surprising, because you barely acknowledged his existence prior to the press cycle for this lp.
@ Eskay
You wrote:
all that said, you're outta your mind if you think you're gonna put the words "nah right" and "sucked off" in the same sentence and not get a response from me.
That I agree with, the thing is that this is you FIFTH post on this subject. It's over now, fam. Let it go. It's dead.
One.
so much drama in the www.LBC.com
Eskay-
The problem arises when you present a really muddled explanation of what you do. You either post a ton of stuff you're sent, tipped to, etc. with little interest in quality and a lot of interest in "will people give a shit" or you're claiming you co-sign what you post. If you co-sign it b/c you know your readers will like it, well that's not really co-signing.
Put it this way:
I have nothing close to the pull or appeal of Nahright and am not comparing myself, but we both have sites that appeal to people for obvious reasons. I didn't see a lot of long, essay-like blogs about rap, so I made one. Simple as that.
I was talking to Rafi from OhWord who sort of implied that I can't write short and my response was "I can, I chose not to, that's not my bit on the internet" My bit is being a sort of pretentious but fairly entertaining rap essayist for a rarified group of readers.
The point being, it bums me out when you or any one else makes fun of my word count or pretension, but you know, that's my bit.
And your bit is feeding the hip-hop hype machine, don't get mad when someone like me implies that's what you do. Do I literally mean you performed oral sex on Asher Roth? No. But you figuratively suck him off by posting any and everything he does.
It's more complicated than "Fans like him that's why" because--and this is what I think, Dukes was saying--you're creating the hype as much as you are reporting/presenting it.
Again, NOTHING is wrong with this, but it is what it is.
Maybe you're also mad because most blog types clam up and fake apologize when they're called on for their shit and I didn't?
Either way, I appreciate your comments and you like, taking this discussion seriously.
Also yeah, Noz is onto something. Maybe I'm projecting, but Noz is sort of implying that maybe you know, at this point you could do more or do more "good"--mind the quotes!--with Nahright. Using a shitty E-40 song to hip people to older, less shitty songs, etc.
Eskay-
I feel you have absolutely nothing to apologize for. I think what's so great about your site is that you function as sort of the definitive source for all new hip hop music. I feel that if you became more discerning towards what you feel you like it would ruin what makes your blog great especially to appeal to some people who don't like Asher Roth. Personally, I download pretty much everything you post and it's fun to sit around for a couple of hours and listen to new music from artists I like or don't like. It's really great that your site is so populist.
Not to butt in, but I think you and Eskay might just have conflicting notions of what "doing good" with Nahright consists of. He likes Asher Roth to an extent, you don't, he thinks he's doing some good by posting Asher Roth. I mean, I hate Papoose. I think Pap is easily one of the five worst widely known rappers out there; I think any time someone posts a Papoose song it's a small contribution to the ultimate destruction of the culture. Eskay, however, likes Pap, makes 3-5 Pap posts a month, and probably thinks he's doing some good by helping to keep his name lukewarm. I disagree, but I at least understand that his posting Pap stuff is driven by a sincere appreciation for the guy, not because he's a mindless cog in the Papoose hype machine who just posts whatever crap lands in his inbox. That's Point 1.
Point 2: while Eskay is helping Pap get his music heard, it's not like he's somehow hypnotizing people into liking Papoose or Asher Roth. Because all he does is post an mp3. The people who like it will like it and the people who don't won't. Whereas a Breihan, or you for that matter, does have the power to persuade people, particularly people who don't know a whole lot about rap, that, like, We Got It For Cheap 2 is the best mixtape ever. And that makes you a lot more dangerous. Take me for example. I started listening to rap only six years ago. Had no idea what was good and what wasn't. So at the time what I did was I went to Allmusic.com and I bought albums they said were great. And I'm listening to 36 Chambers for the first time, thinking "this isn't very good, but it must be good because they said it was so damn influential, like it's the rap Pet Sounds or something," and after a few listens I start to get it. Then that and Illmatic and Blueprint kinda became my template for what good rap was supposed to sound like, and for a while I judged stuff on the basis of how Illmatic-esque it was. Then I started reading RapReviews.com, and they had me convinced that Aceyalone, Talib and Royce Da 5'9 were three of the greatest rappers to ever live. And now I can't stand those guys. But that took a while. Now, if I had started listening to rap a few years later and started out by reading Breihan, or Noz, or Sanneh in the New York Times (as I imagine a lot of people who wanted to get into rap and didn't know where else to go did), my taste might look a lot different even today. So I think that bloggers, particularly bloggers who are critics, have more power than you give them credit for, and that guys like Eskay have a lot less.
To go all the way back to Dukes' point on the original post, the populism/lack of judgment that Tray and Doc are talking about ends up privileging the guys who release the most stuff rather than those who release the best stuff. This means if Eskay likes some of your shit, you can go from unknown to hyped up purely by flooding the market. And so by not using discernment, Eskay has changed the rules of the game, but the new rules seem just as problematic as something subjective like taste.
Note: personal taste is just as problematic, especially if you're as popular as Nah Right. The nice thing about the internet is the variety of voices you can get, so that no one is sole tastemaker. The problem with this is that it privileges the opinions of good writers, but good writers' tastes aren't necessarily better than anyone else's.
Oy...another reason I started this blog is because so many rap writers and listeners are just plain thick, which many of these comments are showing.
And just so Eskay doesn't cry...I got nothing against what you do. My issue falls in how you refuse to realistically/accurately present what you do. Seriously, your site rules I read it every fucking day, it's a constant talking point amongst my friends and girlfriend, etc etc
But please...it is not the issue of "I don't like Asher Roth" or anybody else. Roth's an example b/c a) There's some fundamental problems with his approach b) He's not that good c) He's come out nowhere. Hence, I used him as the like, example of over-hyped rapper. If Nah posted as much stuff about my favorite rapper, I'd be just as frustrated. It's not a matter of taste, it's a matter of having issue with exposure.
What I mean by "good", which I put in quote on purpose, is like maybe exposing people or informing them beyond the immediate. So you post an e-40 song, a few posts later throw up an old e-40 video or talk about 'In a Major Way' for 100 words or something. Mix it up. Like everything in rap that's a problem, there's no balance.
Eskay doesn't and shouldn't have to do this, I'm just saying, it'd be impressive if he did a little more with his internet power.
Man this is amazing. Motherfuckers mustve had this on their mind for years and not said a word.
"But please...it is not the issue of "I don't like Asher Roth" or anybody else. Roth's an example b/c a) There's some fundamental problems with his approach b) He's not that good c) He's come out nowhere. Hence, I used him as the like, example of over-hyped rapper. If Nah posted as much stuff about my favorite rapper, I'd be just as frustrated. It's not a matter of taste, it's a matter of having issue with exposure."
Brandon, here's where I have a problem with your line of thinking. The way artists break out, build fan bases and gain exposure has fundamentally changed. Since the industry is basically collapsing upon itself, the traditional modes of building a fan base have completely closed off for most artists. There's less opportunity and less money backing labels so they can't spend money developing artists and attempting to grow an artist a fan base. It seems the only way to get attention is too flood the market with product and hope that it catches on. It's somewhat annoying but it's a necessary function when their really isn't any market out there anymore.
Question, do we really want to go back to the system in which an elite few of taste makers (record executives, radio DJ's, the traditional media) control the mode of who and what get's released for public consumption, what get's played on the radio and what gets on T.V.?
What Eskay and other bloggers do is by releasing everything you can pick and choose what you like and want to listen, too. So if I happen to like Asher Roth, I can listen to his stuff but if I hate Asher Roth, I don't have to download it and can completely ignore it. It's far more democratic that way.
The fundamental change is that who gets to be taste maker has shifted away from the traditional power structure and has gone towards the blogs and blogs are filled with people who really, really care about the music. I personally think that's far superior way to a bunch of rich music executives in suits trying to figure out if Rick Ross would appeal to teenage girls.
Doc-
I don't need a speech on how the game's changed because I've discussed this change and celebrated it numerous times.
My issue is that Eskay and NahRight have simply replaced old taste-makers. He IS the equivalent--the same--as those people in power of the past. And that's fine, but just...nothing's changed, except guys like Eskay can pretend they aren't as corporate as they clearly are.
The wonderful-ness of it all is people like you or I can connect with some people, but don't expect equate what we do with Eskay. Not because I feel I'm better than what he does, but because we don't have the same clout. If conventional "bloggers" had the appeal you're suggesting and we were AT ALL free of like corporate collusion, etc. then a dude like Zilla Rocca would've been on the front of the XXL.
"My issue is that Eskay and NahRight have simply replaced old taste-makers. He IS the equivalent--the same--as those people in power of the past. And that's fine, but just...nothing's changed, except guys like Eskay can pretend they aren't as corporate as they clearly are.
"
I'm not sure having industry connections makes one corporate. Granted, in fairness, Eskay does or did work for XXL so he's got bigger connections that most of could dream of but I think you're being too hard on him and not giving him enough credit.
I mean seriously, are we as bloggers really so self serious that we are worried about our "e-credibility" now? And does being broke and unpaid for what we do make us inherently more "real" than the Eskay's of the world because we aren't being influenced by any "corporate' entity.
You're putting A LOT of words in my mouth here, Doc.
It's not about "real" or "street cred" and never was. I haven't really said anything negative about Eskay, I've simply pointed out his connections to the industry and how/why he does more than simply post stuff he "likes" or thinks his readers would like.
I was being rhetorical in general. I'm referring to all bloggers collectively. Though, I've gotten the impression that you begrudge Nah Right for playing the corporate game and giving attentions to a few artists you feel are complete corporate manufactured entities. I know you've said time and time again that you don't got anything against the guy but the sucked off comment seems pretty harsh especially since it's so off-hand. If I'm just reading your tone wrong, I apologize.
Idea for new No Trivia entry:
"Greatest Beefs", aka "Blogspot Got Crabs"
A recollection of No Trivia entries with the highest post counts/most beefing with discussions and links.
"What I mean by "good", which I put in quote on purpose, is like maybe exposing people..."
He is exposing people - to Asher Roth. I don't read a ton of rap blogs, and I don't know that I ever would've heard of Asher Roth if it wasn't for nahright (and you blasting him). Whether it's a good or bad thing that Eskay effectively introduced me and thousands of others to Asher Roth is kind of besides the point. The thing is, he thinks he's doing good. And Nah isn't nearly as unfiltered as you're making it out to be. It's not an accident that he posts every random onsmash video that Killer Mike does even though he hasn't sold a real record in 5 years and only we folks in blogland are checking for him. Or, on the other hand, that he ignores all sorts of rappers I really like who could use his platform. If you disagree with his taste, argue with that, but it really isn't as if (a) he just posts everything out there, hence drumming up hype for rappers even he thinks don't deserve it, or (b) he's some kind of creature of the labels and assorted powers that be.
"What I mean by "good", which I put in quote on purpose, is like maybe exposing people..."
(that's me quoting Tray, quoting me...)
That's on some like O'Reilly-like misquoting there buddy as I was specifically referring to Noz's point about connectiong the rap music dots between past and present, etc. etc and not whether or not Eskay exposes rap fans to NEW music, which he no doubt does.
Also, the first place I saw Asher Roth was in XXL magazine, in the Show and Prove section.
Brandon:
Thanks for the love via the XXL cover comment. I really appreciate that, yo! Maybe I can be an Asher Roth stand-in in case he catches crabs at a house party at Kutztown University or sumptin'.
you're all full of shit. no one really cares about you but each other.
a wastebasket in the office of the guy who runs a garbage dump.
Really 'disco vietnam', really?
LOL @ http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=36200787
Go back to writing little ditties about Natalie Portman.
no doubt. keep googling me, clicking me, checking me and linking me sweetie.
"you're all full of shit. no one really cares about you but each other. "
Dude is on point.
The thing is....he's really fucking not. While it's easy to point out the dopey obviousness of a meta-blogging conversation...the real point of Dukes' post and the intention of my post was the kind of shit people that care about rap--not about themselves--should be having: What makes something popular, how's it get popular, who's it speaking to, etc. etc.
If you're talking about the comments sweetie, I mean Disco, well it's a comments section retard. Unless you're on some like "all is vanity" shit, you're certainly not on-point or rather, I'll be clever and point out that you know, you make it all about you when you oh-so bravely point out how it's all about bloggers...
Brandon: Stop feeding your trolls.
Everything in your initial post is speculative and negative so you're not making a positive contribution to any dialogue worth having. I believe you put a lot of thought into this post but I don't believe the post was particularly well-thought out. You reach no conclusion worth reaching and insulted a number of people along the way. That's not a good thing no matter how many hits your website gets or comments your essay draws. It reflects a lack of discipline as a writer and a lack of character as a person.
You don't owe Eskay anything but you should be a little more respectful of other people, especially if they do what you do, and especially if the people who do what you do are the only people who seem to care in the slightest.
I think you can do better. I encourage you to try.
Disco makes the best point yet.
To an observer, Brandon comes across as an attention craving asshole that doesn't respect other viewpoints. Dart Adams sounds like his buddy saying "I got your back" while stepping into the background.
Let's look at this whole thing in another way... Eskay used to constantly bash non-NY music. Go back to old Nahright posts and you will see many arguments on this topic. But, what happened? Eskay finally started to respect artists from the South and West and Midwest and you can follow the evolution to him being a more well rounded hip hop fan. I personally think this is great and without the internet, obviously this wouldn't have happened.
Noz stops by for his 2 cents with a bad attitude- how about giving Eskay props for coming around to liking E-40 and respecting his legacy? Do you really think he was running around NY in 96 singing "Hurricaaaane..."?
People way overuse the term "hating", but this is a case where it fits.
What's of course, absurd about all this is that in terms of attention-craving, Eskay's the one who sent it in the direction of being about his blog. The post itself isn't about NahRight and simply categorizes it as basically, the new "magazines" in terms of rap press. I had no idea Eskay even knew of my blog.
This is so hip-hop.
Im starting a group Gchat with like 90 people. It is going to be a 24-hour marathon of debate on my stupid post, and will be held on election day, since it's kind of more important.
Everyone want in?
I don't necessarily agree with the some of the (in my opinion) unwarranted attention (see Roth), but callin out Nah you're insin uating some foul shit? BTW what the fuck have you done for up and coming artists in this music brav?
Maybe you just misrepresented yourself and in that case should focus a little more your articulation. Or maybe your just a dickhead whose misplaced idealism leads them to believe anyone with any credibility should wallow in journalistic obscurity.......
Half of the shit posted on nah is debated and/or ridiculed mercilessly and herein lies the beauty of it. There's no major pretension of "tastemaking" influence, just an all-access platform that allows you to make your own fucking consumption choices and occasionally enjoy a semi-intelligent dispute or a complete piss-take with other cynical pricks who have some spare time on their hands. Get over it
I really should remember to check my grammar.
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